tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post2449506347841675605..comments2023-10-21T05:56:15.949-06:00Comments on Utah Savage: Hillary's Debt is not Barack's to PayUtah Savagehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16385093247915560752noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-2705582297955022992008-07-11T11:46:00.000-06:002008-07-11T11:46:00.000-06:00What Randal said.What Randal said.DivaJoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02534571327558009753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-9164364256642395292008-07-11T09:42:00.000-06:002008-07-11T09:42:00.000-06:00I have to agree. That rich biotch needs to find a ...I have to agree. That rich biotch needs to find a solution. If I wanted to give her money, wouldn't I have done so in the first place? I think Obama is just doing this to appear to care.Big Yellow Foreheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16534315160991810411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-64086898640103751322008-07-10T15:35:00.000-06:002008-07-10T15:35:00.000-06:00were you looking for this? linkwere you looking for this? <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSISHyCVdd0" REL="nofollow">link</A>Ghost Dansinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15216056025402469120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-76116789488999527912008-07-10T15:01:00.000-06:002008-07-10T15:01:00.000-06:00Unconventional, thank you for your comment. I was...Unconventional, thank you for your comment. I was a bit disturbed by the content in Utah's post, and you are, of course, right. So many laws have been broken, I get addled keeping track sometimes.<BR/><BR/>Utah, I know the feeling of "walking into someone's [blog] conversation." I just put my $0.02 in. I'm rude like that. You did generate an excellent thread on this topic. I was uncomfortable, too. Like, "Why is Utah being so testy?" I appreciate your honesty and providing additional context to your comment.<BR/><BR/>I want a democrat in the White House. And, yes Utah, Obama may be running to the right to get additional votes. I hope that's true, but I don't know. My concern is his current voting record. However, he's not John McCain. I really never felt the 2000 or 2004 elections were the lesser of two evils: there was only one evil and that was Bush.<BR/><BR/>McCain is ghastly. The PUMA site K mentions deals with angry Clinton voters who are voting McCain is well worth the visit. These are not dems but DINOs who are snide and rude.<BR/><BR/>My bottom line is vote for Obama. I think Michele will keep him in line. As concerns Hillary's debt, Obama's efforts to enlist others to help her may indicate that he hopes to get her more focused because he's leaning towards her as VP candidate.<BR/><BR/>I looked up her record: Hillary knows how to play ball: she's pro-environment and pro-choice. And, yes, her advisors should have bit the bullet for the party: they're rich enough not to miss whatever she promised to pay them. They really piss me off, especially McAullif.<BR/><BR/>I want a female president, but Barbara Boxer is not running. BTW, both Clinton and Obama did not vote on the FISA bill. I find that disturbing.Stella by Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385761338190877425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-17955265318576321052008-07-10T14:34:00.000-06:002008-07-10T14:34:00.000-06:00Obama. Is. Not. Paying. Clinton's. Campaign. Debt....Obama. Is. Not. Paying. Clinton's. Campaign. Debt. Period.<BR/><BR/>All he's done is ask people to help her retire debt. He cannot by law give any money donated to his campaign to ANY OTHER campaign.Unconventional Conventionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08541644109127267176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-90020761414368951802008-07-10T14:27:00.000-06:002008-07-10T14:27:00.000-06:00My apologies to all. I visit a lot of sites mysel...My apologies to all. I visit a lot of sites myself as most of you know. I try to pay attention to what you, at your site, are talking about. If I go off topic, I usually say, "off topic" and then say what I what to say, but this felt like a harangue. Again, I apologize to you. I did not mean to be sexist. I have one male friend. It is the women in my life who are most nourishing and supportive in my real off line life. It is usually so in my blogging life as well. But this time it felt like I was visiting someone else's site and walked in on a conversation I had no connection to. It was almost disorienting. I may have to stay out of the political controversy for awhile and post stories or talk about my dog.<BR/><BR/>My real question on this topic is, do we want a democrat in the White House or not? He may be terribly flawed, but he isn't John McCain. He HAS to run to the right in order to get the cracker, hillbilly, redneck vote in the South and Rustbelt States--he needs some of that religious vote as well. If we want to lose another bid for the Presidency, then lets just throw our votes away and be done with it. If we lose this one, like, NJRR, i'll be packing and moving out of this country as well. I don't want to live in a fascist country.Utah Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385093247915560752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-15386275481412620262008-07-10T13:16:00.000-06:002008-07-10T13:16:00.000-06:00May I add that I, too, would cry if you quit blogg...May I add that I, too, would cry if you quit blogging? No offense meant, but remember, my motto is "silence=complicity." I am compelled to speak my mind.Stella by Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385761338190877425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-13928075994645880832008-07-10T13:14:00.000-06:002008-07-10T13:14:00.000-06:00I am forced to admit that mary ellen makes a good ...I am forced to admit that mary ellen makes a good point, Utah. Commentators are always off-topic on my blog, but the comment threads often create more fascinating dialog than the original post.<BR/><BR/>My initial comments dealt with the topic at hand, and I find the comment "only the men" stayed on topic sexist and inaccurate. Straying off-topic was non-gender specific. Everyone except maui strayed, but the participants here wove a delightfully insightful thread. For example, K's comment blew me away: her bravery courage and courage awe me. Vig's always on-target political perspective is well stated.<BR/><BR/>Here's my on-topic perspective to your comment. I throw up a post. People visit and get off-track. New thoughts arise because blogging is a deconstructive process, in that people respond to a post and add new meaning to your original intent. I get to learn something. I am always honored people take the time to visit, whether or not they agree or stay on topic. I've cherished some of the more heated debates.<BR/><BR/>This is, however, your blog—your creation. Thus, I must respect your desire for what you choose here.Stella by Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385761338190877425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-2018725249173624532008-07-10T13:05:00.000-06:002008-07-10T13:05:00.000-06:00don't quit blogging utah. that will make me cry.s...don't quit blogging utah. that will make me cry.<BR/><BR/>seriously.anitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950712894174167863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-679986083626844752008-07-10T12:47:00.000-06:002008-07-10T12:47:00.000-06:00Dear Mary Ellen, I'm sorry if I offended you, but ...Dear Mary Ellen, I'm sorry if I offended you, but I'm confused about all this indignation and anger. I merely wrote a piece about Hillary's debt not being Barack's problem, nor is it his obligation to select her to be his Veep. I know you are disappointed she didn't win, but the fact is she didn't. If the situation were reversed, she too, as she did in the primary, would be moving to the right. If Obama had ended his bid for the nomination in debt, would that debt be hers to pay? I don't think so. Would their votes on FISA be reversed? You bet they would. I'm sorry you are pissed off at me, but I think you guys should be posting on this topic you feel so passionately about. It's just not what I was talking about.<BR/><BR/>Mary Ellen, everywhere I go I see your smart, witty, irreverent comments and I do admire and respect you. I don't want to piss you off and drive you away. I'm merely suggesting that you and K, and Stella have an issue I'm not addressing and don't agree with. I think it obviously needs to be addressed in a post of its own. And since, You and Stella, K are the ones with the passion and anger expressed here, it's a topic that needs its own post. But that wasn't my post. Comments threads I see elsewhere usually deal with the topic of the post. I'm new to blogging and so maybe I don't know the etiquette of the comments thread. I do love an impassioned discussion, but I feel harangued on this one. I understand you quit blogging because you felt attacked on your own site. Now I understand what you meant. I don't want to quit blogging. It's been a great outlet for me. But I don't want to argue over and over about how Hillary should be the nominee. She didn't win this one. It's time to move on with rehashing why she should have won, and concentrate on putting a Democrat in the White House.Utah Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385093247915560752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-63155909840266261422008-07-10T11:58:00.000-06:002008-07-10T11:58:00.000-06:00Gee Utah, I didn't realize that anyone wasn't allo...Gee Utah, I didn't realize that anyone wasn't allowed to discuss anything more than the narrow topic. I'll keep that in mind and stick to the blogs with a more gracious host than you.Mary Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07835150057881066641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-50651894818123914232008-07-10T10:32:00.000-06:002008-07-10T10:32:00.000-06:00I keep going back to my original post and...yes......I keep going back to my original post and...yes...I did say Barack should not be held up for Hillary's debt. The winner does not have to pay the losers debt. WTF happened in the comments thread. Don't mind me, just talk amongst yourselves. I'm glad to see you all here, but it amazes me that the men are the ones who seem to stay on topic. Why the hell is this the case? So, to Beach, Randal and Vigal, thanks for keeping us focused. To K, Stella, Mary Ellen, I think your impassioned responses deserve a post of their own. Just not here.<BR/><BR/>Anita and Mauigirl--you guys are on topic and on target. ThanksUtah Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385093247915560752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-91552638533639201462008-07-10T09:13:00.000-06:002008-07-10T09:13:00.000-06:00I'm going to do what I always end up doing, vote f...I'm going to do what I always end up doing, vote for the clown on the ticket that makes me want to vomit the least and that has an actual chance of winning. Sorry Green Party.<BR/><BR/>Our entire system being 'broken' isn't the issue. It works just fine for who it's designed to work for. It's simply a stupid fucking system where the majority of the voters are equally stupid.Randal Graveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728992897551848531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-28664588533257864382008-07-10T09:01:00.000-06:002008-07-10T09:01:00.000-06:00I still like Hillary better than Obama. His positi...I still like Hillary better than Obama. His positions are shifting faster than I keep up with, and that troubles me. Still--anyone but McFossil. <BR/><BR/>I do agree with you, however, that Obama should not pay Hillary's debt. It's her own problem, just like all the other former candidates. She will just have to pay it on her own.dguzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01811101661607351661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-46511318294339752292008-07-10T07:26:00.000-06:002008-07-10T07:26:00.000-06:00Get a life, McK! As Randi Rhodes always says, Duri...Get a life, McK! As Randi Rhodes always says, <BR/><BR/><I>During the primaries we fall in love; in the general election campaign, we fall in line.</I><BR/><BR/>As I always say, <BR/><BR/><I>That's the way it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.</I><BR/><BR/>That's the way the game is played. Get in the game.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-63180573638777582502008-07-10T00:14:00.000-06:002008-07-10T00:14:00.000-06:00Beach Bum,I feel for your wife. Have her visit my ...Beach Bum,<BR/><BR/>I feel for your wife. Have her visit my site, ikonoclast.<BR/><BR/>There is a part of me that wishes I could just not vote... but I care about a liberal/progressive agenda more than I care about making a point regarding how angry, frustrated, and injured I feel.<BR/><BR/>But tell her she is NOT alone. My heart is still broken over the person who shoulda been our next leader.K McKiernanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17123775383178388693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-73834174599515525842008-07-10T00:00:00.000-06:002008-07-10T00:00:00.000-06:00But K McKiernan, you're wrong about McCain beating...But K McKiernan, you're wrong about McCain beating Obama. He can't. Only Obama can beat Obama.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-38101336522498570722008-07-09T23:59:00.000-06:002008-07-09T23:59:00.000-06:00K McKiernan, after that courageous statement, I ha...<B>K McKiernan</B>, after that courageous statement, I have to say your credibility with me has quadrupled. You are awesome.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-22033425313526059462008-07-09T23:56:00.000-06:002008-07-09T23:56:00.000-06:00Lieberman hearts PUMA's.Lieberman hearts PUMA's.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-77694527181474424312008-07-09T23:55:00.000-06:002008-07-09T23:55:00.000-06:00PUMA's are DINO's, pure and simple. Any one thinki...PUMA's are DINO's, pure and simple. Any one thinking of giving Bush III a pass has no creds and gets only the back of my hand.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-76649356211638007732008-07-09T23:08:00.000-06:002008-07-09T23:08:00.000-06:00beach bum-But when McCain starts letting the missi...beach bum-<BR/><BR/><I>But when McCain starts letting the missiles fly and they start talking about bringing about the draft, which is coming down the pipeline if he gets elected I'll be laughing my ass off and volunteering for the draft board since I'm a retired army fart.</I><BR/><BR/>I hear this threat every election, the next Republican is going to re institute the draft. What makes you so sure that Obama wouldn't do the same? He seems to be happy with leaving our troops in Iraq for awhile, so what's to stop him from wanting to go ahead with a draft? That threat can go both ways. It doesn't matter if Obama says that he won't do that, he goes back on his word all the time. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I'm not thrilled with the idea of my tax money going to churches like Trinity in Chicago,or any church for that matter.Mary Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07835150057881066641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-6149771785786577002008-07-09T23:01:00.000-06:002008-07-09T23:01:00.000-06:00Oh, I also forgot to add FAITH BASED INITIATIVES ...Oh, I also forgot to add FAITH BASED INITIATIVES to my list on the comment above. I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. <BR/><BR/>I also forgot to add...there is something you can do instead of allowing Obama to have this nomination handed to him, call Howard Dean or write to the DNC and tell him that you expect to see Hillary's name on the ballot so the Super Delegates could exercise their right to vote. You could also write to the Super Delegates and if you have changed your mind on Obama, let them know and let them know why. <BR/><BR/>Or...you could just not vote for President, and vote down the rest of the ticket. Just a thought...Mary Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07835150057881066641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-46112557622587861902008-07-09T22:56:00.000-06:002008-07-09T22:56:00.000-06:00Obama has no record on womens rights. In fact, it...Obama has no record on womens rights. In fact, it was discovered recently that he paid the women who worked on his campaign less than the men who were doing equal work. That should tell you how much Obama cares about women or their rights. <BR/><BR/>No one is forcing anyone to retire Hillary's debt. If you choose not to, that's fine, you just have to specify that when making your donation. <BR/><BR/>Also, all this backtracking Obama has done since he thought he secured the nomination is exactly where he will stay if he is elected President. He made it very clear this week during a speech where he claims he really hasn't moved to the center, you guys just weren't listening to him! He just stabbed every one who voted for him in the primary in the back because he thinks you have nowhere else to go. Nice guy, eh? <BR/><BR/>Think about it....<BR/>NAFTA<BR/>FISA<BR/>CAMPAIGN FINANCE<BR/>DEATH PENALTY<BR/>ABORTION RIGHTS<BR/><BR/><BR/>...he said he has not changed positions, you just weren't listening. Do the words "bamboozle and hoodwink" sound familiar?<BR/><BR/>Stella, you say that you want to see if Obama "behaves" himself over the next month. How much worse does he have to get? Isn't that like saying if your teenager is caught drunk driving, smashes the front end of the car, fails all his classes, you'll decide at the end of the month if you'll suspend his driving privileges. What does Obama have to do to prove to you that he is not the man he made you think he is. <BR/><BR/>If Obama is going to continue to change his colors like a chameleon with every election, first the primary, then when he has secured the nomination, and then when he is President, how will you know which color he truly is? <BR/><BR/>Look very closely at his voting record in Illinois. Not what HE says his voting record is, but the real record. Then you will see how far to the right he really is.Mary Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07835150057881066641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-80607226279264175432008-07-09T22:44:00.000-06:002008-07-09T22:44:00.000-06:00The reality (in my mind at least ... which is ques...The reality (in my mind at least ... which is questionable i admit), is that Obama always, always has had a middle to right-of-center bent on a number issues. In the bizarre hoopla of it all (i.e., the Primary to End All Primaries), that reality has gotten lost in the noise, including the noise created by the Republicans that he was THE MOST liberal, which is so ridiculous it's funny, yet it's not funny because ultimately it will make us all cry.anitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950712894174167863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5954604416278665691.post-4757588437553753932008-07-09T21:59:00.000-06:002008-07-09T21:59:00.000-06:00Utah, I feel the same way about paying Hillary's d...Utah, I feel the same way about paying Hillary's debts. And I also agree with your point in the comments that before Obama can do anything he has to get elected. And I think he may be one of the smarter campaigners the Democrats have had in a long time - so hopefully he knows what he's doing in his most recent stances.Mauigirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529827915262851910noreply@blogger.com