Friday, November 7, 2008

Let Bigotry and Exclusion Ring

I'm furious that in a moment when we made history by proving to ourselves and the world that we have overcome our racism enough to elect a black President, we want to rescind the civil rights of gay Americans who live in California, a state we like to think of as progressive. I know there were several other states that passed similar measures to prohibit the marriage of gay couples, but they are not states with the reputation for tolerance and inclusion that Californian has. Rachel Maddow pointed out that there were also measures on many states ballots that made the use and possession of small amounts of marijuana legal. But not gay marriage. We are now more afraid of "the gays" having the same civil rights as the rest of America's citizens than we are of the pot smokers. We have a long way to go baby.

I remember a time when it was not legal for a black person to marry a white person in many state. This is no different an issue. It is an embarrassment and shame to all of us that we tolerate this kind of intolerance in our state constitutions.


an average patriot said...

I was rather taken aback when California rescinded it! I have to agree with Ellen Degeneres that it is not right to take back a right that was given. It is just so un American and it really surprised me coming from California!

Utah Savage said...

It made our forward progress in the general election feel less joyful. We give with one hand as we take away with the other.

an average patriot said...

I am afraid racism will never be beat in America or anywhere else! Blacks now feel though that anything is possible and they as a race have made it to the top. I feel their pride!

Sylvia K said...

I can identify -- I married a black man in 1965 and we had to go to CA because it was against the law in Texas where he was stationed and where I taught school. It's sad to see CA going backwards, when we really need all the forward movement we can generate.

Utah Savage said...

I was just talking to a young male friend and he said that a gay couple had bought a house in his neighborhood and within a year the property values had gone up. I want a gay couple to move into my neighborhood.

Sylvia, I remember those stupid days so well. It's one of the reasons I moved to Italy in 1965. We were sending young black men to die in Vietnam, while denying them civil rights here at home.

Beach Bum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beach Bum said...

I was more than a little surprised by that vote. Shades of South Carolina on the West coast.

Ghost Dansing said...

the arrogance of humans to think Caesar decides what is bound together in heaven and on earth.......

perhaps there is insufficient Church-State separation in the first place..... let the Churches marry, and the State takes license fees to establish civil unions for legal purposes for all its citizens.....

why should the State recognize the action of any Church? why should the State perform any function in lieu of a Church..... like marriage?

perhaps the State should deny corporate status to businesses involving gays? the Churches don't like gays, so perhaps the State should prevent them from having business licenses or forming corporations.....

are they not applying legal sanction to a social group because some Churches don't approve of them receiving the same equal rights under the Law?

what is marriage from the perspective of the State other than a contract between two people?

is the State recognizing a Religious sacrament? does a Church require the State to recognize a religious sacrament in order for it to be valid?

does God require a Church or the State to unite two people spiritually in heaven and on earth?

are there Churches that will marry gays?

if the State bestows on marriage a special legal status of contractual union, on what basis would that special status be denied a gay couple that was married in a Church.

or if the State insists upon performing Church ceremonies like marriage, to which Church's dogma will it comply?

perhaps the issue of Church-State separation is what truly needs to be examined here.

Utah Savage said...

Ghost, Point taken. I should post your comment. May I?

SaoirseDaily2 said...

I was shocked and saddened that this did not pass from the state I spent most my life in.

anita said...

absolutely sad, bad, and even more. actually, it's bizarre. and i think that sylvia k understands it quite well, and i understand to the extent that i can because my sister (who is white, like myself) is married to a black man and her two amazing kids are multi-racial (as is our new president).

my parents did not acknowledge their young grandchildren. their existence, their intelligence, their beauty ... their wonderfulness as innocent children.

good parents are good parents whether they are gay, black, white, pink, purple or gray.

bad parents are bad parents whether they are gay, black, white, pink, purple or gray.

people are fucked up. truly.

let's move on from this awfulness.

Mauigirl said...

Utah, I totally agree, I too was really disappointed and disgusted that Proposition 8 passed (as well as the other anti-gay-marriage measures in other states).

However, Ghost Dancing has it right, in my opinion. This is really all about separation of church and state. There should be civil unions that are official contracts sanctioned by the state for both straight and gay couples, and churches can marry anyone they want - or not, if it's against their beliefs.

BBC said...

I have never cared if they married or not, even though some of them are damn screwed up.

As a minister that does marriages I would marry them if it was legal in this state.

And damnit, I think that they should be able to experience divorce also, gotta keep those attorneys employed.

Dave Dubya said...

And we hear Sarah Palin chirping about how there is greater equality with the people in Alaska!

Yeah, she really meant they are MORE EQUAL in Alaska. Like Orwell's pig in Animal Farm saying "All animals are equal. But some animals are MORE EQUAL than others."

Stella said...

On behalf of California, I apologize. We have a lot of non-Californians in our state that don't understand our culture and values. Of course I voted against banning gay marriage.

Attorney General Jerry Brown, who was our governor and may be running again in 2010, said that he would stand by the voters' choice, but anyone who got married when the California Supreme Court sanctioned gay marriage would continue to be recognized married. He was against the measure.

Ghost dancing is absolutely correct perhaps the issue of Church-State separation is what truly needs to be examined here. What got voted in were Christian values. Our Founding Fathers were Deists, particularly Thomas Paine, George Washington, and James Madison.

So, I am particularly angered by this proposition and consider the entire matter unconstitutional in violating the Fourth Amendment. The wonderful Margaret Cho stated: I am totally disgusted and furious that now there is a ban on gay marriage in California. So my happiness about Obama is tempered by my anger about Prop 8. Still, we cannot give up on the struggle. This is just a reason to fight harder to make gay marriage legal again. We can overturn the ban. We lost this by such a narrow margin. It was only a few votes. We could take it back.

I feel the same way.

There is already a lawsuit pending by the ACLU and LAMBDA, among others, appealing the vote. Last night, there were 3,000 people in the streets protesting the Yes on 8 win and strong support to overturn this mess: Numerous public figures have spoken out against Proposition 8, including President-elect Barack Obama, Vice President-elect Joseph Biden... It's not over.

Utah, thank you for changing your comment format. I couldn't get on the site! Hurray!

Randal Graves said...

Well at least I won't have my heterosexual marriage destroyed now. That was a close one! Whew!

fairlane said...

The best answer I ever heard on this issue was from a Libertarian running for Congress in Louisville.

When asked, "What is your position on gay marriage?"

He said, "I don't understand why an adult would worry about gays getting married."

I must concur.

Instead of lobbying the government to discriminate against gays, the religious freaks should be asking for a time machine so they can go back to the fucking 13th century.

Stella said...

Last decent Republican:

At 85, after a life in politics spanning five decades (he retired from the Senate in 1987), Mr. Conservative has found himself an unlikely new career: as a gay rights activist. While that's not his sole pursuit – he returned to Capitol Hill yesterday to testify in favor of scenic overflights of the Grand Canyon – in recent years he's championed homosexuals serving in the military and has worked locally to stop businesses in Phoenix from hiring on the basis of sexual orientation. This month he signed on as honorary co-chairman of a drive to pass a federal law preventing job discrimination against homosexuals. The effort, dubbed Americans Against Discrimination, is being spearheaded by the Human Rights Campaign Fund, the influential gay lobbying organization.

"The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay," Goldwater asserts. "You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."