Tuesday, November 25, 2008

Stella Speaks in Response to a Comment at My Place

Red, let a native Californian school ya, even though a Red Rasputin is a cocktail.

Proposition 8 was purposely written in a deceptive manner, especially in the initial draft. Many people thought if they voted Yes on 8, they supported same-sex marriage. The ads were utter prevarication.

The original ballot language read: "[Prop 8] Amends the California Constitution to provide that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

The election official's change, however, gives the legislation a more straightforward read:

"[Prop 8] Changes California Constitution to eliminate right of same-sex couples to marry. Provides that only a marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. Fiscal Impact: Over the next few years, potential revenue loss, mainly sales taxes, totaling in the several tens of millions of dollars, to state and local governments. In the long run, likely little fiscal impact to state and local governments."

Red, note the convoluted language. The only fiscal impact is that companies and the government that insures heterosexual families would be required to insure same-sex families. Where this "tens of millions" came in, I do not know, especially when the end of the proposition states "likely little fiscal impact." Huh?

"The Proposition 8 ballot was created in opposition to amend the constitution and overturn the 2000 Proposition 22. Prop 22 was an initiative to prevent same-sex marriages from being recognized by the State of California. The measure was defeated by a wide margin of 61.4% to 38.6%. Oppositionists tried to fight this decision in the California Supreme Court and the decision was upheld in May 15, 2008 and same-sex marriages were finally allowed in California."

Your logic is flawed, Red. I find the comment you selected bordering on bigotry. Your quote is from one minister at one church: hardly a consensus on African-American voters.

Please take your question back to the Mormon Church and the Knights of Columbus who violate separation of church and state. These organizations, along with right-wing Christian fundamentalists, such as the Christian Coalition, poured millions of dollars into passing this proposition—most of these organizations are not in California and don't belong in our politics.

Furthermore, , "Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Sunday he will not join legislative Democrats in a court fight against Proposition 8 despite his opposition to the same-sex marriage ban, but he believes the courts ultimately should and will allow such marriages in California.".

Sadly, Attorney General Jerry Brown, has his hands tied to defend the laws of the State of California. He has stated he wants to ensure that same-sex marriages that occurred between May 15 and November 3. But, that's another story.


KELSO'S NUTS said...

UTAH: This is exactly the kind of thing I mean about Obama being a FOLLOWER not a LEADER. He was against gay marriage than he got scared because his numbers started dropping in CA after Schwarzenegger attacked his manhood. So, he switched and was against Prop 8 hoping to "make friends" with Schwarzenegger.

He gets elected and instead of having his own ideas, he turns to some vapid book on Lincoln written by Doris Kearns Goodwin (a true moron) which posited that he had a cabinet of mixed Repubican-Unionist and Democrat-Whigs.

He's for talking to Chavez and then REJECTS Chavez's no strings attached offer of free Citgo home heating oil for the poor of the entire Northeast and instead gets all lippy about Chavez being a threat to national security. To impress Gates and Lieberman.

Once again, it comes up, from the Latino perspective: WEAK.

I think it's worse than weak. I think it's fuckin pathetic. White Liberals got so fuckin played! It's hilarious. All so fuckin earnest and shit. And now they're all jammed up because Obama's like way more right-wing than HRC could dream of being and you're all stuck with that White Guilt thing.

What was wrong with Dennis Kucinich again?

Utah Savage said...

He wasn't tall enough. I would have voted for him, but we're so shallow our presidents have to be tall and preferably handsome. I love Kucinich and his wife's hot.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

I've heard that Barack Obama is an African-American. If I'm not mistaken that and a Metro Card will get you a ride on a New York subway.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

Dennis Kucinich from the progressive left and Ron Paul from the libertarian right told nothing but the cold hard truth in every debate: the wars are wrong, the budget is a mess, the deregualtion is a disaster waiting to happen, the dollar has no support, the real estate bubble is driving poor people out of their homes and creating a timebomb for the middle-class, the death penalty is wrong, drugs should be legalized, and on and on and on...one truth after another.

The rest of them just lied through their teeth. I loved it when Kucinich quit and Paul was at the press conference and asked him if Paul won would Kucinich be his VP? He said, "Ron, I'd be honored".

That's the kind of "reaching across the aisle" I like. What Obama's doing is just becoming Bush.

Randal Graves said...

People don't want the truth because when they look in the mirror they'll see they've bought into the bullshit and no one wants to feel bad about themselves. It's always The Other.

Utah Savage said...

Let me ask you this. Randal, did you vote for Barak? Kelso, If you lived here would you have voted for Barak? Hillary or Barak? That was the choice at the end. So do we all become expats like Kelso and his nuts?

Utah Savage said...

Kelso, calling Doris Kearns Goodwin a Moron is fightin words.

Stella said...

Kelso, where's the article on Obama and Chavez? I hadn't heard anything about Chavez providing free heating to the Northeast. Chavez had me in stitches after that UN meeting:

“The devil came here yesterday,” Chavez said, referring to Bush’s address on Tuesday and making the sign of the cross. “He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world.” Standing at the podium, Chavez quipped that a day after Bush’s appearance: “In this very spot it smells like sulfur still.” He then recommended everyone read Noam Chomsky.

Schwarzenegger is a RINO and is supportive of overturning Prop 8. Remember his quote: In a CNN interview, Republican California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger encouraged opponents of the passed Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California, not to give up until the measure is overturned... He later said of the voter-approved state constitutional amendment defining marriage between one man and one woman, "We will undo that, if the court is willing to do that, and then move forward."

Given your comment, I wonder if Obama truly is against same-sex marriage. Schwarzenegger called the entire Democratic party, "Girly Boys." I mean, so what? He panders openly to the GOP, but undermines many of their environmental and anti-science policies. The day Bush vetoed the stem cell research bill, Ahnold provided $150 million in research the following day.

If Obama is courting Schwarzenegger, it's not because the California governor is against legislating same-sex marriage, but because our state has 1/6th of the population of the entire U.S.

I vehemently disagree with Ron Paul's political ideology. I mean, seriously, do we really need another Texas politician?

I do agree with you and Utah that Kucinich would have been a wonderful president. I had the opportunity to see him speak at an environmental conference, and he is absolutely dynamic. Clinton and Edwards were outclassed. I so admired his pushing through the bill listing 35 crimes to justify Bush's impeachment.

I hope Kucinich takes over Henry Waxman's position as Chair of the Oversight Committee. Waxman now chairs the Energy and Commerce Chairman, one of the most powerful positions in the House. He's extremely tough and, while not as liberal as Kucinich, damn close.

Don't think for a minute Obama is weak: right now, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's playing his cards close to his chest.

Let's see what happens after January 20th.

Oh, and Utah? Thank you so much for the post, but you still can't have my man, you slut.

Utah Savage said...

Actually, I'm working of a post about my virtual sluttishness.

Kulkuri said...

Most ballot propositions are written in such a way that some will think voting yes will be a no vote. That's why I always say I'm going to vote Yes on No.

Let's wait and see what Obama does before we start to bitch about him.

Stella said...

Exactly, Kulkuri. I also think we need to give Obama a chance. I'm not happy about the Laurence Summers nomination, but that's about all.

Kelso, Schwarzenegger skews moderate: he married into the Kennedy family. His wife is Maria Schriver. I'm far more comfortable with his and Obama's friendship than I am with Bill Clinton buddying up to Pappa Bush.