There is this myth, reinforced each day in the news world, that Hillary Clinton is a friend of the working class, the blue-collar, Joe six-pack kind of guy. Since when? The only way she can keep this myth going is to dodge the tax return issue.
What Hillary learned during her bungled attempt to give us single payer universal health care for all Americans, was not to mess with the insurance lobby. So now her health care plan is not a single payer plan, but, like the new prescription plan, medicare part D, is run by the insurance companies to the detriment of the taxpayers and the people getting the help. I am one of the people benefiting from the plan, but that is because my income is below the poverty limit and puts me in a special category. Most retirees don’t get that good a deal. Hillary Clinton is so well plugged into the big business loop she will never find her way out. She is connected up the wazzoo.
So where did this reputation for feeling the pain of the little guy get started? It is one of the many faces of the new and improved brand that is the Clinton myth, created for this particular time and just for Pennsylvania’s poor under-educated working class. It is being patched together out of thin air for the most cynical of reasons.
War On X-Mas, Cont.
1 hour ago
12 comments:
Hillary is by no means a stupid woman, but she is manipulative and conniving, which is more of the same when it comes to living in the White House. While she was unsuccessful in her bid to reform health care I admire her tenacity. I tend not to pillory Hillary (:-)) becaue if it came to a choice between her and McBush she will get my support and my vote. It goes without saying that I am a fervent Obama supporter but strange things happen in politics.
Yes, I would vote for Hillary if it comes down to McCrazy or Hillary. But this is the primary season and I hate the kind of campaign she is running--I think it speaks volumes about the way she will run the country. And, yes, she is smart, but her judgement has been awful. Screwed up health care, voted wrong on Iraq--didn't do the due diligence by reading the intel reports, I could go on and on and probably will in future posts. If there ever was a time to pillory Hillary, it's now.
I have to admit that I'm not so sure I will vote for Hillary if she and Bill somehow squirm their way to the nomination. Yes, she is tenacious and if elected she will be lightyears ahead of a president than Bush could have ever hoped to be. But with that said the tactics she and Bill and employed to me show a higher regard for a "will to power" than serving the country. My vote is for Obama, if he is not the nominee I will just stay home. I just can't stand the taste of voting for a Cheney in drag, even if she is a Democrat.
Beach thanks for dropping by. Do you agree with Madmike that McCain's a true American War Hero? That he is an honorable man and above reproach on just that level?
McCain's stature has a war hero is much inflated by his years in captivity and under torture as a POW. At the same time, I think one should be permitted to point out that he himself has reduced his iconic status somewhat when he voted earlier this year to allow the CIA to water-board.
Bravo, madmike. I think McBush is also manipulative and conniving. Look how the last eight years turned him from McCain to McBush. And, yes, like all of you, I'm hoping the Dems give Obama the nod.
I would have far more respect for Clinton if she returned to her original plan for health care. And maybe she will. I don't know, but she is clearly not for the middle-class (what's left of us) or the poor. I just don't trust her for the reasons beach stated. Clearly neocon PACs shilling for her. It's hard for me as a liberal to vote for a candidate for whom Rupert Murdoch had a lavish fund raiser.
Liberal? Progressive? I don't think so. However, I will vote for her if Obama does not get the nod. Clearly it's a case of voting for the best of the worst, but the thought of McBush in office give me far more trepidation than Clinton.
I wish more people would support these issues. At least Richardson gave his delegate votes to Obama. He's decent guy.
I'd like to have an election where I don't have to choose the lesser of two evils. While I'm very much compelled to vote against McCain, I'd hate to have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary. Thankfully, I live in a state where my vote doesn't really matter either way.
Utah, I'm back...and really pissed off by all the crap being slung around in this comment section.
I'm not quite sure how you, others in this room, and many other voters out there posture yourselves as *just so damned cynical* about Hillary, and the Clintons in general, and some even claim to be so cynical and apathetic about choosing between Clinton and McCain...yet you fall for the charisma, drink the kool-aid...however you want to slice it, you buy into the biggest question mark of all, the most pie-in-the-sky, all hope and no substance candidate of them all.
It is equal parts hilarious and maddening, because Obama is the guy you all should be the MOST cynical about. You claim to understand the political process inside-and-out and can fully dissect how powerfully the Clintons have played within said process...yet you are too naive to even begin to grasp the ways Obama is playing the process, the media, and the electorate. He is a genius in a way the Clintons are not...and never were. And THAT is why he is seen as the unbeatable, undeniable choice even though the LITTLE GUY refuses to vote for him, which is why he loses in every major industrial state except Illinois (which was a given).
And, you talk about how badly Hillary has run her campaign, but in reality, when you are up against an upstart who seems to play the same *cynical* game better than you, that is not a bad campaign...it is being out-campaigned...being out-bullshitted.
Yeah, I said it: Obama is a bullshit artist to end all bullshit artists.
Also, to even insinuate that Hillary is playing dirty is to stand on a soapbox while simultaneously slinging mud. Politics IS dirty...EVERYONE fans the flames...and of all the hatred that gets slung by any candidate, I have never seen any candidate's supporters get so harsh, so dirty, so ridiculously cruel and inflammatory as Obamacans. The vigor with which you attack the opposition **within your own party** is exactly the kind of behavior that will help Hillary lose in November if she overcomes all the haters and actually wins the nomination.
You want to "pillory Hillary" (how cute) without letting up...yet you say you would vote for her in November? How hypocritical.
For me--and I would have to assume other Hillary supporters, as well--the incessant barrage of heinous commentary coming not from Obama himself, but from his campaign and especially his supporters, has put us so on the defensive that it *seems* as if we are attacking the candidate, but in reality, we are just fighting for what we see and what we believe in. I will surely vote for Obama if he ultimately becomes the nominee, but all this time I spent sparring with more fervent Obama supporters was not to pillory, ostracize, or otherwise burn the man at the stake. It was to fight back against the supporters of the "hopeful, positive" candidate who seem to be the most hateful supporters I've ever seen--and they aren't even using their hatred to defeat the true opposition!
Also...such cute terminology ('pillory Hillary,' 'Cheney in drag') stems from the deeply embedded sexism in each and every one of you. It is so easy to throw stones at Hillary because it is uncomfortable to see a woman in such a powerful position, especially with the potential to assume the most powerful office in the country. We hate our mommies and love our daddies...and even when we hate our daddies, the deep-seeded desire for a father to love makes us throw momma from the train when he appears out of smoke, hope, and mirrors.
So sad...this was supposed to be the year of change and hope. And hell, maybe it still will be. But it is hard to get excited with all this intra-party hatred permeating the atmosphere.
But again, I will vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. So will many Hillary supporters. Why? Because we see the ultimate need for change, whereas for many Obama supporters, it is Obama or nothing. So hypocritical and so unfair.
By the way, Stella:
"At least Richardson gave his delegate votes to Obama. He's a decent guy."
Thereby implying he would not have been a decent guy if he had given his vote to Clinton? That is a very tenuous construction, I must say.
McKiernan:
I have never heard so much pure unadulterated negative bull shit about Senator Obama without mentioning one fucking specific grievance against him other than he knows how play the game. How much better would it have been if you had bent some of those 'poor Hillary' words around defending her for her many little fibs, errors, lies, and hyperbolic remembrances of having executive experience. She is a packaged fraud. Which is fine. The American people are used to electing packaged frauds. But you, yourself are behaving fraudulent in your Obama-phobic innuendos. You are obviously coming from the position that Hillary is entitled to this presidency because she put up with Bill and Monica. I do not understand why you have to scuttle the Democratic cause out of your desperation to get a woman elected this time around?
Boris, you sound very uncomfortable, like you've been challenged and don't know what to do with yourself.
I never expressed or implied that Hillary was entitled--and certainly not because she put up with Bill and Monica!!!! Who's ass did you pull that one out of? My whole point was that Barack certainly isn't entitled, either.
I also pointed out how cruel and blindly unfair you and many other Obama supporters are to Hillary as well as her supporters. You certainly backed up my point there. I could feel the unnecessary hatred and vitriol in your words. It was disgusting.
My goal is not to get a woman elected...it is to get Hillary elected. But I will point out sexism when I see it, because it is far more prevalent than anyone realizes. If you are bucking against my comments, again, it seems it's because they make you very uncomfortable about where you stand. To say I only want to elect a woman this time around is to completely and entirely miss the point and the complexity of the issue.
By the way, "playing the game" isn't a grievance...I am merely pointing out the fact that Obama plays the game, while many (obviously yourself included) seem to think he is this untouchable god-like figure. I agree with everyone that Hillary knows how to play the game. My point in addressing Obama's gaming abilities is to point out that he is allowed to play the game and come off completely unscathed. But Hillary plays the game and it becomes this "long, sordid, cynical history of the Clintons working the system." Every politician does it...it's a fact of life. But she is the only one being taken to task for it.
And as I said in my earlier post, my "grievance" is not with Barack Obama, it is with so many of his supporters (you are certainly one of them) who deify Barack and demonize Hillary, her staff, and her supporters. It is despicable. The Senator himself, thankfully, has stayed above the fray. I respect him for that.
Don't come at me spewing your own bullshit about me being "Obama-phobic" when I have said many times that I respect Obama and will vote for him if he is the nominee. You come off quite "Hillary-phobic," though...or actually, you come off as "Hillary-hating," which clearly indicates "Hillary-phobia."
One of the last points I made in my post was that in the eyes of many ravenous Obama supporters, I must come off as someone who is disparaging their candidate. But I never intended to do that...not ever. I will say again, as I said in my last post, that because people just like you, Boris, decide to defend your candidate to the detriment of not only Hillary Clinton, but the Democratic party itself (talk about "scuttling the Democratic process"...you don't seem to care if anything in the country changes so long as you can cling to Obama's leg while spitting bullets at me), I feel the need to point out the many logical gaps in Hillary-haters' arguments. The point is not and never was to disparage Senator Obama, but was merely an attempt to level a playing field that desperately needs leveling. But of course, I can't make a single comment that could even be construed as negative about Obama (even though I never directly criticized Obama) without it throwing you into a frenzy and causing you to write a post which did nothing but distort what I said, make up lies that I never even implied in anything I said, and spew bile about Hillary being a fraud...and me being a fraud.
You are not the first person to argue with me about comments I've made on Utah Savage's site. But you are the first one to engender my genuine dislike. I respect the likes of Utah, Stella, and my beloved Vigilante because they bring substance and thought to the table, even when we vehemently disagree. I understand where they're coming from and can debate with them without it getting personal. It always seemed in the spirit of "we're on the same side, but are engaging in spirited debate about the issues we disagree on." I thought that's what I was doing again this time.
But you made it personal. And I can't respect that.
You also, very sadly, proved two of my points. One, that some Obama supporters are so vigorous and one-sided that they can't see straight. And two, that at a time when we should be celebrating the end of the Bush presidency and getting excited about our prospects and the opportunities that lie ahead, we chew each other's heads off, instead.
Consider the Democratic process scuttled.
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