Friday, December 19, 2008

Oh, This Is Very Bad News

From Salon today about the Obama choice of Rick Warren.


Stella by Starlight said...

The Warren news sucks, but there's some comments out there that help me feel better about that asshole. After the inauguration, he'll be a non-issue.

Warren is clearly an ass wipe, right-wingnut who is plainly bigoted. His invitation absolutely insults the gay community by his support of Prop 8 (naturally) and the First Amendment.

The up side? The inauguration is just one day, not eight years. Even so, I wish Obama had made a better choice

The LA Times published a great opinion article: We shouldn't read too much into Obama's choice of Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at his inauguration... History shows that the views of inauguration preachers aren't a reliable guide to the policies of the presidents

Perhaps a better choice would be a Unitarian minister like five of our presidents.
UUs supported Obama from the beginning of his campaign.

Obama's comment evokes his knowledge of, and exposure to, various faiths.

Obama: I went to a Catholic school in a Muslim country, so I was studying the Bible and catechisms by day, and, at night, you'd hear the [Muslim] prayer call. My mother was a deeply spiritual person. Her view always was that underlying these religions was a common set of beliefs about how you treat other people and how you aspire to act, not just for yourself, but also for the greater good. I am a follower, as well, of our civic religion. I'm a big believer in the separation of church and state. I am a big believer in our constitutional structure. I'm a law professor at the University of Chicago teaching constitutional law.

I hope he's sincere.

Utah Savage said...

This is the kind of commenter I love. She fills in all the places that need moderating with smart, well placed links. I love this kind of commenter Stella. You have just done all my work for me and I will probably post this post haste.

Do you know how to embed Rachel Maddow's pieces call Lame Duck Watch? She did one yesterday, and her site says they can be embeded, but I can't figure out how. I have no trouble with YouTube clips, but these.. I can't figure out how to get them and bring them home.

The one I want is on the latest fucktardery of making it possible for a clerk ringing up your RX to refuse to sell you birth control pills. And far worse.

Mauigirl said...

I know - I can't stand Warren and what he represents but Stella's comments are also something we have to keep in mind. I am not judging him by who he picks to say a prayer. For that matter I wish they didn't have prayer at a government event in the first place!

I loved Rachel's piece last night on the "Conscience" rules. I'll see if I can figure out the embedment thing for you...

Utah Savage said...

Mauigirl, nice new word, embedment. Will you embed with me, honey?

Beach Bum said...

Mega-churches give me the creeps and Warren being the pastor of one puts him on the bottom of any list I would have. Despite his "moderate" stance of several issues his statement about gays and lesbians puts him up there with Farwell.
Some spoken that President-elect Obama felt he owed Warren for asking him to that televised meeting he had with him and McCain early in the general campaign. I watched a tiny portion of it and felt that the questions McCain received were some how rehearsed while Obama's questions were actually shaped to possibly make him look bad.

Unknown said...

Since I feel religion should be a personal issue, I could give a rats-fucking-ass if Warren does the invocation.

Obama is really reaching on this choice however, but it is his to make and really doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things.

Warren is a rightwing Theocrat, we all know that so lets move on shall we? ;p

Stella by Starlight said...

There are two ways to download Lame Duck Watch or clips in general.
1. Link to You Tube.

At the "Embed" clip is a line of code.

Copy the code

Create a new post, then paste in the code.

Click the post button


2. Link to Maddow's MSNBC site, and click the Lame Duck link on the left side (you can also Google the site).

There's a button at the bottom of the "TV" screen entitled embed.

Click the button: a window pops up entitled "Copy the Embed Code."

Then, just cut and paste the code into a new post and publish.
The code looks messy, and each site uses slightly different embed codes, but most should work on blogger.

Hope this helps, Utah and anyone else who wondered how to do this.

Utah Savage said...

What a peach you are, Stella

Dave Dubya said...

Obama is already a lost cause if he thinks pandering to bible thumpers will get them to compromise on anything.

We saw this in the 90's.

Talk the liberal talk then legislate to the right.

I hate to think we are in for more Clintonism.

Anonymous said...

Much ado about nothing I think.... Pandering maybe...but only one day it is.... I don't believe he is a homophobe... I'd like to believe that he is proving that he is bigger and better than anyone who holds a grudge.... And I ditto Beach Bum, about mega churches and's all about money....and the megachurches are a nice safe place for the (stupid, non-thinking for themselves) "Christian" (NOT!)masses to hang out....

Utah Savage said...

Giggles, I love it when you tickle me. It's snowing, so I'm getting out much at the moment, even on the net.

Just got a call from my shrink. Real friendly and interesting. Maybe I'm not so bad off after all.

jmsjoin said...

Hi Utah
I commend Obama's opening and closing Religious picks! I just love it! It is vintage Obama reaching out to both sides, i think this is great! While gay rights groups were busy objecting to the selection of Southern Baptist pastor Rick Warren, who opposes same-sex marriage, to give the invocation at the inauguration, they may have failed to notice who is giving the benediction.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, 87, is best known as a civil rights icon and co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. He also comes from a liberal Christian mainline religious tradition, the United Methodist Church.

In 2000, Lowery, gave what was described as an electrifying speech calling for gay clergy, to the dinner during the general convention of the United Methodist Church, the nation's second largest Protestant denomination.

According to Affirmation, which describes itself as newsletter for United Methodists for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer Concerns:

Lowery, noted over the years for his ability to not only "talk the talk" but "walk the walk," addressed a series of justice issues that still challenge us in this first year of the 21st century. Among these issues are ... the risk the church takes when it restricts, limits and excludes those whose orientation is homosexual. Dr. Lowery wondered out loud, "how could the church, because of a person's sexual orientation, deny ministry to those whom God has called?" He then suggested that he would prefer to err on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

And in 2004, he told ABC News he supported same sex marriage:

When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that's a civil rights issue. And I can't take that away from anybody. So Obama's ceremony will begin and end with high profile pastors. He defended today the choice of megachurch pastor Rick Warren, author of The Purpose-Driven Life and omni-present evangelical figure on the public scene, to offer the invocation.

Still, some people say there shouldn't be prayers offered at this civic event -- separation of church and state and all that. Others say this is an overwhelmingly God-believing nation (however you see God) and that everyone shares in asking God's blessings for its leader. For many years, the familiar face at the podium was Billy Graham, who called on the Lord on the president's behalf. At George W. Bush's first inaugural, those prayers took a sharp, sectarian turn when the invocation by Franklin Graham, standing in for his frail father, and benediction by Texas pastor Kirbyjon Caldwell each concluded in Jesus' name.

Critics observed that by doing so, they cut out a swath of American citizens who don't pray to Jesus but do want to say amen to blessings for their president. Franklin Graham gave no ground on this. Caldwell later said he would have handled his prayer differently, to be more inclusive.
Will the prayers by Warren and Lowery include all the millions tuned in? Is this a civic event or a religious event? Can it be both? Will supporters and opponents of same-sex marriage be able to say, "Amen?"

Anonymous said...

tee-hee! I'm glad I tickle you!

Utah Savage said...

Average Patriot, you've talked me down. Thanks.

susan said...

Let's wait and see if the new president can fix some of the really serious stuff after the inauguration. Meanwhile, I too was happy to read AAP's thoughts on those who'll pray. Amen.

Fran said...

I feel very angry about this and can't explain it away.

Just can't.

D.K. Raed said...

I'm with Dusty on this. I live for the day our public and political affairs do not have to be "blessed" with benedictions and invocations. Separation, blah/blah, apparently the people still need their fix. Pastor Rick is a dickhead. I tune him out & get on with my day.

Stella by Starlight said...

Giggles—great comment! Much ado about nothing and the mega churches are all about money.

Average Patriot, I didn't realize Rev. Joseph Lowery would also lead prayer at the inauguration. Now, it does make sense about the invocation choices. Sure, Obama's playing both sides: he's a politician.

I agree with Dusty and D.K. about separation of Church and State, but prayer at inauguration goes back to President Washington. It's a tradition we should lose. How does swearing on a bible ensure honesty?

Dave, I think the we've got a good chance of a more leftist cabinet than Clinton. Richardson is extremely progressive, even though he served under Clintion.

America was highly prosperous under Clinton. (I am still pissed he signed NAFTA.) Obama is an extremely different individual. He's far more thoughtful and measured in his approach.

Unfortunately, we've got a lot of wingnuts out there that have to be pandered to, as least a little bit. As far as refusing to lean right, Waxman, Boxer, Feingold, Wexler and Kucinich have stayed staunchly progressive, and they'll have Obama's ear, too.

Whatever happens, Obama has eight years of nasty shit to clean up. The promises he made won't happen right away. I'm just glad we'll finally have a president who can pronounce "nuclear." I think he'll do a great job with diplomacy: America needs a president that understands that concept.

Utah, dear, I'm not a peach (but thank you for saying so). Geek may come closer to the truth. I wear my geekdom proudly.

What a wonderful thread.

Anonymous said...

Stella, Thanks for the encouragement... After watching Rachel (Maddow) last night, I was gonna rescind....but ... I have been thinking mightily on this issue and will be posting soon...after I do a little homework...!

Mauigirl said...

LOL, I like embedment too.

Average Patriot made me feel better knowing about Lowery also; I had read something about it on his blog yesterday too.

I did send Obama a note on telling him that as a symbol, picking Warren was a slap in the face to anyone who believes in equality for all, and that he now owes the gay community big time for this. I suggested he repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell immediately after the election or some other equally important step.

Unknown said...

Yikes! Bad news is right. Plus, it's ugly.

Stella by Starlight said...

Legislation is starting from Rick Warren and Ken Starr to keep Prop 8 passed against CA Attorney General Jerry Brown who wants the ugly proposition overturned.

Just wanted to pass along some good news.

Utah Savage said...

Do you mean Ken "that motherfucker" Starr? The guy who made a career out of sniffing Bubba's dick for the feint whiff of nookie? That Ken Starr?

jmsjoin said...

Utah you are too funny, you are a hot one!

Stella by Starlight said...

Starr? Yes, exactly the same cocksucker. Pun intended.